Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (Palkab) — Fri, 09 May 2008 01:55:53 GMT

Very interesting viewpoints indeed. But the points debated here all share the same viewpoint, namely whether we really need pain or suffering as either a physical or mental sensation in order to experience true happiness.
In order to fully satisfy this question, one first has to wonder, imo, what that state of 'true...

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (tetsuojackson) — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:18:55 GMT

Didn't Aldus Huxley more or less cover this in Brave New World or Orwell or Bradbury? It isn't that we need pain to enjoy good things perhaps it does heighten our appreciation of them but I would argue that we don't need pain, that being said it is just a simple fact that we always will have it or we are not human.

If you want no pain try heroin, the first time you mainline it you will never forget it. That is a paradise that doesn't last.

Good posts by...

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (NaddiaAoC) — Wed, 07 May 2008 21:38:59 GMT

Good post, Intruder. I'm off to bed now, but I'll reply tomorrow if I have time.

Nad

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (JLunare) — Wed, 07 May 2008 21:34:35 GMT

I just think it's crazily fanciful to contemplate that kind of life. As much as we hate to feel hurt or suffering, those things which create those feelings are what push us - they are what drive us to aspire to more. Even the fear of death itself pushes us to make the most of the time we have so that we learn, we grow, we question, we experience, and we shape our destinies.

Parents strive to make things better for their children than what they had as children because knowing how...

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (Nsuzi) — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:55:54 GMT

I think the feeling of pain, emotional pain, is what makes me feel alive. To feel loss, to feel grief, to feel angry, to shed a tear is what makes us human. With out pain, happiness can not exist. Happiness will lose all meaning. If you cant feel pain then you cant feel true happiness You will feel nothing. Feeling nothing is depression. To be eternally happy...

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (IntruderND) — Wed, 07 May 2008 18:35:45 GMT

Delivered my response to Naddia, as promised :-)

Sorrry for the delay.

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (HappyAnyway) — Tue, 06 May 2008 18:22:23 GMT

"...death will be no more. Neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be any more. The former things have passed away." Rev. chapter 21.

So, is the word pain here referring to physical pain or emotional pain or both? Well, first the scripture mentions "death", so the pain seems to be physical, as in "pain and death". But then it mentions pain and outcry and mourning together. So, that indicates emotional pain.

So, the scripture is...

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (IntruderND) — Tue, 06 May 2008 05:27:51 GMT

I'm reserving this posting space for a reply later today when I come from work. I have a couple of points I'd like to elaborate on.

Naddia said:

"I don't think emotions have been described in binary terms here, rather they've been described as existing on a continuum, with positive emotions at one end and negative at the other."

They say if there was no suffering how would God...

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (NaddiaAoC) — Tue, 06 May 2008 03:46:31 GMT

Intruder,

Interesting point, but here are a few counters to your argument.

I think this binary nature of emotions, the ying and yang, is not a real need. Defining happiness is not a problem to me.

I don't think emotions have been described in binary terms here, rather they've been described as existing on a continuum, with positive emotions at one end and negative at the other. There are obviously all kinds and degrees of...

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (IntruderND) — Mon, 05 May 2008 20:38:37 GMT

I got some time for a quick point here. I think this binary nature of emotions, the ying and yang, is not a real need. Defining happiness is not a problem to me.
Say you grow up in a place where nobody ever hurt you. You never had physical or emotional pain. Would you still be able to laugh without ever having had to cry? Of course you would. As our emotional and physical well-being is so tightly knit together it's inevitable that our body will 'incite' the mind for the...

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (Ronnie45) — Mon, 05 May 2008 17:38:28 GMT

Good post here Rusty...

I have lots of thoughts, but not even sure where to start.

I think life as the jw's call it----paradise earth----is nothing that would be too enjoyable that I can see. Then again, the whole concept is really above my head---I cannot conceive of what type of existence that would be. It sure isn't anything like we have now. We start experiencing pain even right at the instant we are born.

I too have experienced that type of...

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (NaddiaAoC) — Mon, 05 May 2008 08:10:23 GMT

Excellent post, Rusty. You made some very thoughtful observations, and I tend to agree with you. When we talk about feeling happy, elated, excited, what do those words mean? They have meaning as concepts of emotion that exist within a whole range of emotions. What is joy without sadness? It's nice to think about being happy all the time, but does the word "happiness" even have meaning without the word "sadness"? Can these concepts exist independently? A lot of people...

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (Mystla) — Sun, 04 May 2008 20:57:06 GMT

I'm sorry if I took this the wrong way, my nerves are a little raw and prone to taking things to extremes, at present.

Maybe this quote is more appropriate:

"Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something." Wesley, in The Princess Bride.

Misty

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (Danielle0754) — Sun, 04 May 2008 20:08:03 GMT

I dont see any indication of Rusty referring to physical pain. I think he means emotional pain, or better yet, life struggles and hardships.

I most definitly agree with you Rusty. I never thought of it like that before but you are right.

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (Mystla) — Sun, 04 May 2008 19:53:10 GMT

As someone whose spouse deals with extreme physical pain on a daily basis.. I really don't know how to respond to this.

There isn't anything I wouldn't do to relieve his pain. On the other hand I think the JW's pie in the sky view of everlasting life without pain is complete BS.

Would we better off without pain? Yes, I have to say yes. I can't come to any other conclusion, all things considered. I can't live my life deluded with false hopes,...

Re: Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (1cookiebear) — Sun, 04 May 2008 18:43:07 GMT

Very interesting Rusty. I like your points.

Life without pain ... (eternal happiness in an illusion)

feeds@yuku.com (Leotheturtle) — Sun, 04 May 2008 18:21:04 GMT

As Jehovah's Witnesses we were promised a life eternal without pain and suffering. Now let us put aside the paradise earth scenario; the tame animals and the dead bodies and all the obvious flaws in that thinking for a moment.

Lets just focus on the promise of a life, free from suffering, and free from pain.

Eternal happiness.

On the surface this sounds great. No one wants to live in pain. No sane person wants to see people...