Cranky
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crankyoldman |
Gay Marriage, coming to a state near you. |
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OK let's start out with this. Yes I am a gay man. I have been in a committed relationship (marriage) for 15 years. No I don't care if the state I
live in ever allows gay marriage. Why? Because I could care less. I know I'm married, my husband knows we are married, and everyone we know, knows that
we are married. We have legally protected ourselves, so we are fine and will continue to be fine. Yes it would be easier and a whole lot cheaper (i.e
attorney fee's ect.) if the state recognized our union, but the only option I have to change that is my vote. Any I use it. The problem I have with
people who state they are against gay marriage, is WHY. I don't care about the whole human rights part of it. I just want to know on what moral or societal
concern are you basing your argument on? Seriously, I could give a rats ass how your marriage works, and what the state allows you and your spouse to do, so
why do you care so much about mine? Kind of reminds me of a bunch of JW's meddling into everything that is none of their business. I knew a bunch of
Elders wives who couldn't keep their noses out of other peoples business and this debate reminds me of that 100 percent.
Cranky |
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AllTimeJeff |
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Cranky, my congrats and best wishes on your marriage. I just want you to know I support gay marriage and hope that you get to experience what should be your
right.
Jeff
The good old days weren't always good And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems -Billy Joel |
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jehovahcankissmyass |
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Crankyoldman that is so exactly how I think about well marriage in general its all nonsense. Committed love is all that
matters. Marriage started out originally as a Religious institution and as I am a Atheist I am with my man 8 years and no marriage..no need..it's a
piece of paper. If people want to base there life on a piece of paper there scary. And if you want that beautifull day have a big party and just dress up and
party minus the paper..marriage is a religious institution originally so therefore fuck that yall. LOL
Last Edited By: jehovahcankissmyass
04/09/09 18:22:55.
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Kingsmeg |
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There is no legitimate 'social' reason for opposing gay marriage. There is no public good that needs to be defended, and the fact that two people can
or can't get married has zero effect on other married couples. Courts all over the place have recognized this, and that denying the existence of gay unions
is discrimination.
All of the arguments against it boil down to a personal statement of 'Ewwww!' Well, that's how I feel when I see people celebrating a human sacrifice (like tonight), I still don't think I have the right to prevent them from eating their crackers and drinking the wine (or not, if they're JWs).
Jody
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians. The danger already exists
that mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and confine man in the bonds of Hell.
-- St. Augustine
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crankyoldman |
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jehovahcankissmyass wrote: And if you want that beautiful day have a big party and just dress up and party minus the paper..marriage is a religious
institution originally so therefore fuck that yall. LOL
JCKMA, I tried that, but my mothers wedding dress wouldn't fit, lol. I just don't look good as a girl, not pretty enough I guess, lol. Or mabye it's the goatee, lol. Although I must admit that I am a very handsome man. Even if me and my husband are the only one's that think so, lol Cranky |
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AndriaSyxx |
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Great attitude Cranky ... and congrats on your long-term love affair with your fella. I've been with mine for 17 years this year and we just get closer
with age
Most of the people I've come across who oppose gay marriage do so because they're homophobic or they're religious and homophobic. Potent combination having both. I have no drama with gays marrying one another if that's what they wish to do. I have no drama with them wanting to raise a family either. It's love that matters ... not gender.
"Listen to your heart above all other
voices."
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jehovahcankissmyass |
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Cranky, you are awesome and you can borrow one of my dresses. lmao! HUGS
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javeca |
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You know it always amazes me why the Gay and Lesbian communities have never made Same-Sex Marriage a 1st Amendment issue?
I am going to leave it at this for right now, I want to see if any of you are half as smart as you think you are. I want to see if you can figure out which clause, and how the 1st Amendment is being violated by banning Same Sex Marriages.
"In the hegemonic state there is neither right nor law; there are only directives
and regulations which the director may change daily and apply with what discrimination he pleases which the wards must obey. The wards have one freedom only:
to obey without asking questions. "
Ludwig von Mises -- Human Action p. 199; p. 198
Last Edited By: javeca
04/13/09 20:12:49.
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sweetangst |
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I don't get it either Cranky. The only non-religious argument I've ever heard is that a marriage of two people of the same sex could be exploited by
two people who just want the financial benefits of marriage.... on the surface, that almost sounds like a decent financial reason, but in reality, it's
total bullshit. It's quite common in the military for a male and female service-member to get "married" strictly for the financial benefit of
their union via taxes and increased military pay and/or because it allows them to live off-base when otherwise, as single individuals, they'd be required
to live in the barracks.
I agree with Kingsmeg, it is absolutely discrimination and it's wrong. I think you have a good attitude about it though. As long as you and your partner know just how much you each mean to each other and how serious your relationship is, the paper is superfluous because that piece of paper certainly isn't holding any of the heterosexual marriages together. It's the love that counts. "Truth is high but higher still is truthful living." - Guru Nanak |
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irishshane |
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javeca wrote: (see highlihted portion) How smart do you think we are?
"They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America? " -Fidel Castro
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cariboubill |
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Hey, Cranky, One of my grandsons is gay. It gives me a new perspective on the whole thing. I just hope he can find a relationship as good as yours. He is a
handsome, wonderful young man. He has a lot of friends, male and female. If people would just keep their noses out of thing that don't concern them.
...Bill
"I refuse to prove that I exist". says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." from The Hitchhiker's Guide to
the Galaxy
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crankyoldman |
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1st Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Javeca, I have no idea why I'm answering you since you felt the need to be condescending in your post but here goes. Marriage is a religious practice, and the first amendment denies congress the right to legislate any religious practice without showing a compelling reason that is would harm the state. (see below from Wikipedia) In Sherbert v. Verner, 374 U.S. http://supreme.justia.com/us/374/398/case.html href="http://supreme.justia.com/us/374/398/case.html" rel=nofollow>398 (1963), the Warren Court applied the strict scrutiny standard of review to this clause, holding that a state must show a compelling interest in restricting religion-related activities. Also Javeca wrote : You know it always amazes me why the Gal and Lesbian communities have never made Same-Sex Marriage a 1st Amendment issue? I am going to assume you meant to say Gay and Lesbian communities and not Gal and Lesbian communities. I'll assume you simply made a typo and were not trying to make some back handed slur. Cranky
Last Edited By: crankyoldman
04/10/09 14:09:40.
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Odd Dolls |
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cranky, don't you know that if your loving union is legitimized, it will threaten the institution of marriage? And it's in the bible someplace? And
besides, people find it icky.
Bah. I get SO tired of people trying to withhold rights from other people. I don't care about religions. A legal union is a secular thing. "Marriage" supposedly is religious. Why we cannot keep the two separate, I don't know. I'm glad you have a loving spouse and a great relationship. It's yours, belongs to you and him. To heck with anyone who'd try to break you apart or who want to judge your life. Janet |
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crankyoldman |
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Javeca,
Still just wondering if you had a response to my previous post on this thread. Cranky (loving the fact that I'm icky..... or was that STICKY????, lol?) |
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Pauley4 |
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Cranky,
This is a very good post, and certainly a topic that is controversial. "I don't care about the whole human rights part of it. I just want to know on what moral or societal concern are you basing your argument on? Seriously, I could give a rats ass how your marriage works, and what the state allows you and your spouse to do, so why do you care so much about mine? Kind of reminds me of a bunch of JW's meddling into everything that is none of their business." Well you know, I'm for gay marriage. Ever since I became more positive toward alternative lifestyles, which was when I left the witnesses, I've thought that we should allow people who love each other, no matter what their sexual orientation, to marry. I thought it was a crime, actually, to not allow gays to marry. I think it perpetuates the stereotype that society has about gay men and women, which is that they are immoral. By not allowing gay people to marry and commit to each other, society can continue to say that it's all about sex, and they want to sleep around, and what have you. So, if society allows gay people to marry, it will show us that gay men and women truly love each other and want a family just like everybody else (and therefore, society will have to admit that they've been wrong in their thinking about gays). It's also a fair and just thing to do. Another thing, I feel society is oppressive when it comes to sex. We don't really want to talk about it, and I don't think we understand it very well. So by being more open and accepting of gay relationships, I think this will help us to understand homosexuality, heterosexuality, and bisexuality better. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. Yes, and some JWs did meddle. lol Regards, Pauley |
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NewTracy |
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Hey Cranky
I hate this this is still up for debate in the US. Really what is there to debate? Here in the UK glbt couples are free to enter a civil partnership. Not something I am sure I will ever do. My girlfriend and I are happy to be as we are "living in sin" lol Who knows maybe one day our wishes here might change and I sure am glad we would have the opportunity if we wished. A friend of mine and her partner formed a civil partnership last year. I think the biggest thing for them was that their church blessed their union. Was a beautiful day. I only wish in the US they would wake up to the 21st Century in regards to this issue and be allowed the same rights as any other couple. All the best to you n hubby, you sound really happy. Love your attitude !
Tracy formerly known as bogit!
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IntruderND |
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I thought that all states in the USA allow for a civil union if not an actual marriage?
Maybe I am not half as smart as I thought I was? My understanding was that a civil union marriage grants all the benefits of the traditional marriage except it's not called the same; did I misunderstand? |
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crankyoldman |
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IntruderND,
Actually gay Marriage is only legal in 3 of the 50 states. Those states are Iowa, Connecticut and Massachusetts. Until Prop 8 passed in California, gay marriage was legal there also, now it's in the hands of the California Supreme court. Vermont allows for civil unions but not gay marriage at this time. As you can see not many places in the US allow for gay marriage or civil unions. The state I live in not only doesn't allow civil unions or gay marriage, the radical right helped to pass a law recently that amended the states constitution to define marriage as the union between one MAN and one WOMAN, allowing the state to not recognize unions legal in other states. Let me explain. I live in Ohio. If any hetero couple married in another state moves into Ohio, their marriage is automatically recognized by the state of Ohio. Gay civil unions and marriages are not. My partner and I have friends who have traveled to other states and been legally married, but when they returned home their marriages were not recognized. I won't comment any further on that as they are in litigation against the state at this time. Also a civil union is not federally recognized, so federal benefits available to married couples, such as social security survivor benefits, and military benefits do not apply to civil unions. That's just some current info for those who asked for it. Cranky
Last Edited By: crankyoldman
04/11/09 18:57:39.
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IntruderND |
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Whoa.. that's pretty backwarded.. I didn't know it was that limited down there. It seems some circles are pro-actively against it. Religious right is
so insecure when it comes to GLB rights, yet they're teeming with Ted Haggards...
That's why I can't understand why my brother went to live in KY. |
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palmel1234 |
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Hey Tracy,
Any cases of bestiality in the UK? Here in the states, that's one thing I hear folks say. First you allow gay marriage, then next people will want to marry animals. Which to me is a pretty retarded argument against gay marriage, but I hear it all the time. Melanie |
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AllTimeJeff |
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The problem I have with people who state they are against gay marriage, is WHY. I don't care about the whole human rights part of it. I just want to know on what moral or societal concern are you basing your argument on? Seriously, I could give a rats ass how your marriage works, and what the state allows you and your spouse to do, so why do you care so much about mine?Cranky If it isn't clear by now, any who might be opposed to gay marriage have (wisely) chosen to avoid this debate due to the likely response they will receive. I could hardly blame them, and commend them for not starting a fight they could never win. In a battle of ideas and civil rights, those against gay marriage have no leg to stand on.... As you know better then anyone, social conservatives with their biblical world view, are at the base of the reason why you cannot currently have a legally recognized civil union. Not all people who believe in and worship feel that this should be so. I am sure over time that this small minority will lose what little influence it as left... Be patient and vigilant.... It will happen....
Jeff
The good old days weren't always good And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems -Billy Joel |
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