irishshane wrote:
Interesting topic dude.



I think before I comment I'm going to give some back ground info on myself.
I was born in England to an Irish Catholic single woman. Whilst a baby I was baptized Catholic.
I was around the age of 2 when my Mum started studying with the JW's and later (within a year or two) was baptized as a witness.


When I was leaving the JW's I moved to Ireland. I was close to most of my Mums family who were/are still Catholic.


Down the line with my then partner I had one son. My partner although Catholic is hardly religious. She barely attends mass, occasionaly going to a wedding, funeral or christening service. However after our son was born she wanted him christened so he wouldn't be the odd one out at school and to keep her Dad happy as well. I fell in line as I wasn't pushed one way or the other and so my son was baptized Catholic.


Fast forward a few years and due to my sons special needs (Autism) he is given a placement in a special needs school that is on the Brothers of Charity land ( I will come back to the school later as I deal with some of your specific points). Like most catholic schools there are morning prayers.


Inbetween his christening and starting school his Mum and I broke up and I met my now wife.


We got married in a Catholic church. My wife, similarly to my sons mother would not be a regular mass goer although she is more reverant and would partake of the sacraments at mass time. However my wife would be more inclined to go into an empty church as she likes to pray privately or pray at home than regularly attend mass.

However for her wedding she had always hoped to get married at the small church in the village that her late mum had grown up in and so as the bride she naturally got her wish.

So officially to get married in the Catholic church I would have to convert to catholicism. However since I had recieved the first sacrement (sacrements are recieved at baptism, first holy communion, first confession confirmation, marraige and last rites and if you joined the priesthood the sacrements of holy orders) when I was christened (baptised) I was considered to be a catholic. Only problem was had to contact my Mum to find out which church I had been christened in so as to get a copy of the baptismal cert because you could be sure my Mum no longer had it.


Now even though she had formally requested that we be removed from the Catholic register when she converted to JW's they obviously ignored the request as I had no problems getting my cert.


The day of my marraige the joke was that I received two sacrements as I got my first holy communion that day as well. Yum!!!


My Mum has asked me since if I view myself as Catholic and I respond "No but I do enjoy going to mass occasionally". As you can imagine that bugs the shit out of her.


Shortly after our marraige my son made his first Holy communion as again his mother and I felt it better then him being the odd one out by not doing so.

In the last few weeks he just made his confirmation which is basically a renewal of his baptismal vows which obviously he couldn't have said as a baby. His mother and I left it up to him if he wanted to do it. He choose to as others in his school were and so that was ok.


Ireland is a lot different from the Ireland that would have been portrayed in the movies. Certainly in my generation and even now many in my mums generation no longer feel the need to follow strictly Catholic doctrine and teachings. However when the census is carried out the majority class themselves as Catholic. They are neither ex communicated either because of conflicting lifestyle choices they have made that may conflict with Catholic teachings.



Ok now to comment directly on some of your points made dude:



Firstly I think its important to say I mean no disrespect towards Catholics, I
know one that is a decent person





My wife is here reading this with me and she doesn't seem to have taken offence so no worries here.




(1) Firstly while the JW's border on worshiping the governing body,
Catholics seem to worship the pope much much more.










Whilst Catholics will pray to saints they officially do not worship the pope. The pope may be given sainthood after his death (usually many years after) and then they may be officially prayed to. Catholics will pray for the pope at mass time . They may have a deep love for the one they view as the living figure head of the church. Particularly the last Pope, John Paul was very loved by many. Pope Ratzinger doesn't seem to have that same appeal. At least in Ireland he doesn't yet.




Catholics love praying to both the Virgin Mary and God the father, son & Holy Ghost. Certainly any Catholics I know don't seem to hold the Pope in such reverance as witnesses do with the governing body.







(2) Another interesting one is how they both feel they are the ONLY WAY to salvation. Its a peculiar stance, one that I personally find disturbing







In all the masses I have been to and listened too I have never once heard the priest say that if you are not catholic you are going to die, go to hell etc etc. However we know the JW viewpoint. Whilst once again in the Caticism (I don't know what it says and cba checking) it might be there, modern catholicism does not teach this in church.



(3) Both have bad child abuse scandals that are covered up by the higher ups, elders and Governing body members for JW's; Bishops and Cardinals and now Popes (Current pope covered up sexual abuse before he was pope) for Catholics.






No excuses for either organisation.

My sons special needs school was originally ran as a Brothers of Charity School from the 50's to the 80's with residential facilities for it's special needs students. Inexcusably, sickeningly some of the the most vulnerable in society were abused by one or two priests charged with looking after them. Even now to this day the schools name has been tarnished by the scandal and shame that it was covered up for so long by the church and government. My sons school is changing its name from September largely so they can right a line under that chapter and move on into the future.

Going back to previous point on current Pope's popularity I agree that his apparent cover up in the past has not helped.





(4) both flip flop on key doctrinal issues, for the jws a notable case is the blood ban and for Catholics one would be the recent removal of belief in purgatory (a very big deal!).There is a ton more of parallels, feel free to throw in your own




Whilst Catholics may have changed doctrinal beliefs at times I would argue how many of the changes have effected the lives of their parishoners as much as the flip flops of the witnesses have (i.e blood, organ transplants etc).





(5) Baptizing the young. JW's baptize (youngest I recall seeing baptized) anywhere as early as 8 years old (although relatively rare) meanwhile catholics baptize ALL babies.




Yes catholics baptize babies however when those babies grow up and say "I'm not going to church anymore, I'm athiest" etc etc they are not excommunicated. In the main (yes there may be one or two who will) the families dont stop speaking to them because the Catholic church does not require this.



(6) In the 1934 yearbook jw's sent a nice message of support to Hitler, the current pope was once in "hitler youth" and many catholic churches, archbishops etc celebrated Hitlers birthday.


Catholics weren't the only religious order in Germany that got taken in by Hitler initially. By the time most of them realised what he was up to he was too strong and powerful and so many of them had to resist him in underground movements. However most catholics would agree it's not there brightest moment. However you also fail to mention the many millions of Catholics who did join the war effort aagainst Hitler.





This has gone on far longer then I intended. I seem to be defending catholics which is really strange as I dont consider myself to be Catholic (recent census I put myself down as non-denominational). However certainly in Ireland in my generation the catholic viewpoint has relaxed whereas the JW stance seems to be going the other way. So in fact I think they are further apart than you might realise dude.

edited due to stupid yuku formating issues I'm having tonight *sigh*
  


That's some post for one post Shane. A dropgoal on lrish Catholicism.