Silent Judging

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Joe123	Silent Judging	Lead	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 3 (02/05/09 17:28:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi, Nice to meet you all, I'm Joe and I've got a bone to pick... I was raised a jw and during the last months I attended meetings, I somehow felt judged when I was in the presence of a jw. The jws didn't say or do anything, but I experienced this feeling of being looked down upon, or judged, or pitied. It's something that I can't explain to friends I have outside the borg. The fact that nothing was said or done makes me think I'm making up this feeling. But I can't deny the fact that I felt judged while at the kh. I'd like to see if there's any consensus on this feeling. Am I just imagining this judging, or have other people experienced it? If you have, have you tried to explain this feeling to friends that don't know much about the borg? Thanks, Joe
AndriaSyxx		#1	[-]
Supreme Member Posts: 4806 (02/05/09 18:40:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi and welcome to the forum Joe! The particular bone you've chosen to pick right now ... IS a bonefide one (pardon the pun!). The JWs themselves are NO different to any one religious group. When they're all together ... there will always be the usual hierarchy of the elders, ministerial servants at the head of course (until the bigger fellas come along for a visit). They'll be followed by the WAGs ... the wives and/or girlfriends ... or BOTH in some cases! Then there'll be the pioneers and their crew ... the more 'spiritually minded' ... who of course are only given this tag by those sitting up on the higher chairs. There'll be those who are almost at the 'spiritually minded' level ... those studying who of course are encouraged at every given chance so they don't bolt for the nearest door ... and there's everyone else lumped into the same 'not so spiritually minded' group. You don't have to do anything or say anything to be frowned at. Words don't need to be spoken either. And NO ... it's not your imagination. Despite whacking themselves up on the higher end of the food chain ... the JWs are still human. When grouping up like they do in religious houses of worship ... it's difficult for them not to form little cliques with the more popular or 'spiritual' ones looking down on the others. I'm not sure if they mean to be like that or it just happens ... group peer pressure and all! I can remember being looked down many times. I used to wonder if it was what I was wearing ... my height ... my face ... my lack of door knocking ... my parents alleged lack of spirituality or whatever it was. I never did find out what their problem with me was ... but in the end it was rather amusing and entertaining to get those looks and raised eyebrows. I'm a bit of a stirrer sometimes and remember taking the arm of a young JW man who was really keen on me ... and then leading him and a couple of other friends up to the front row ... smack bang under the watchful eyes of whoever was on stage! And yes they DID keep an eye on us. I deliberately left my bible at home ... so of course in order to read my friend's bible I had to lean a little closer to him! We even brushed shoulders and arms! Um ah! Silly as it seems now ... back then it was my way of being overtly rebellious without being rebellious ... and as it turned out ... I saved the gossipy nosy-parker types from having to constantly turn their heads around to see what we were up to. That was nearly 30 years ago now and it was frowned on BIG time to sit with a member of the opposite sex unless you were contemplating marriage etc blah blah! You're not imagining things though Joe. It's almost like being back in high school the way some people in a religious group react! To outsiders ... they find it difficult to understand the restrictions and the indoctrination we're subjected to. Have a really good look around whilst you're visiting in here ... you'll soon find you're not losing your marbles and you're also not alone in how you feel! "I have always been delighted at the prospect of a new day, a fresh try, one more start ... with perhaps a bit of magic waiting somewhere behind the morning." ~~ J.B. Priestly ~~
1cookiebear		#2	[-]
Indispensible Poster Posts: 2156 (02/05/09 19:19:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hello Joe and welcome. You talkin bout da look? Da condiscending look? Ya, I know da look. The you are bad look. Believe me I know the look. No words are needed when you are given the look. Its kind of an elementary, yet effective look. Kind of blows the scripture that says,"judge not, lest you be judged", right out of the water doesnt it? "Armageddon could be knockin at my door. But I aint gonna answer thats for sure. Theres gotta be somethin more." Jennifer Nettles Joe
revniv		#3	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster) Posts: 455 (02/05/09 21:18:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Definitely, the silent judging goes on. Its one of those "unwritten" things that JWs do. For example a brother in the congregation grew a small goatee beard. Now there is nothing "written" saying no beards. In fact we had a CO once say there was nothing unchristian about having a beard. But you would think that brother had leprosy, by the way he was avoided. Others wouldn't go on the field service with him. He never got a talk in the school while he had it. Then when he walked in the KH with no beard, he was greeted like a new brother. It will show in the way JWs speak to you, or avoid doing so, or suddenly find they have to talk to another brother or sister. The way they hold themselves if you are near, as if they might catch something off you. Its one of the subtle means they use to keep people in line.
STEFFUNNY		#4	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster) Posts: 519 (02/06/09 05:22:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	its a partial shun
Joe123		#5	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 4 (02/06/09 06:01:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm not a psychologist, but after an A level and a short University course, I've found that given the right circumstances, humans can lose much of their natural compassion. So it makes sense that people in a closed environment (cong) given titles, privileges and praise may feel a little spiritually superior. Or they may even fear people not so close to Mr J, so they do the avoidance thing to protect themselves. All speculation though... The 'why' they judge would be nice to know, but to know that I'm not inventing this feeling is good. Steffunny: I think a partial shun is exactly what it is. Partial shunning would have the same purpose as disfellowshipment (e.g. protecting your spirituality), just being a less extreme version. It's funny to compare your old concept of a spiritual paradise to an honest look at the dynamics of the average cong. The cliques and hierarchies make me want to vomit. They even extend down to children. In my experience, even Elders'/Pioneers' children are more socially active than the children of single parent families. wtf?!
Paradise4in2009		#6	[-]
Silver Level Member Posts: 14 (02/06/09 07:43:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Oh, I definitely felt this way. This was just one of the reasons I left for good! The stares that I got from people, nobody wanted to talk to me, except for maybe 2 or 3 people in there. I would always have my 4 children with me and they would just make me feel like I had this awful disease. Of course I was never babtized but they all knew I was raised in the truth. I had studied 3 different times and quit all of them, maybe that was why, cause I was spiritually weak! Like Andria said, I was always wondering stuff like "Is it my dress, my looks, my vehicle, am I too poor, is it having all the kids with me?" Cause I was the only mother in my cong. with a lot of kids. There was only one other couple with a child. I haven't been going now for about 5 months. About 2 months ago, My children and I were eating out at a restaraunt and the witness couple with the only one child came in as we were getting ready to leave. The husband stopped to say Hi to me and talked with me a little bit. His wife never even looked at me. It was though I didn't even exist. It really bothered me all that day cause it made me feel like I wasn't a human being or something, or like I was just this awful bad association. I wanted so bad to just tell her that I am a human being too and I have feelings. She used to say Hi to me every once in awhile at the meetings but I don't know what her problem was at the restaraunt. That really topped things off with me on the organization and there "Only true love" thing! Everytime I hear a witness say that they show brotherly love it makes me want to slap them! I know now though why I never felt like I fit in there... It was because I was being myself. But, yeah, I used to wonder if its just my imagination or my low self esteem. But, I don't believe that anymore!
LovesBulldogs		#7	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster) Posts: 261 (02/06/09 12:54:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It happened in my congregation. The sisters married to unbelieving mates, the single sisters, the poor ones . . no one wanted them around. I recall going to many congregation picnics and having these ones excluded. They were certainly judged. Frogs have it easy . . they just eat what bugs them.
solitaire		#8	[-]
Posts: 3019 (02/06/09 13:28:10) Co Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I truly believe that we were conditioned to judge one another!! If you look to despots ruling countries, or regimes that have ridiculously stringent and barbaric rules and regulations, they always rely on 'snitches' - people telling on their peers to the authority, and thereby gaining 'favour' in the eyes of the rulers They used the supposed 'loving' attitude of caring for one another, and looking out for our brothers and sisters 'weaknesses' - to facilitate blatant spying on each other - and thereby giving them the ammunition to attack Divide and conquer usually works, because it creates a life of wariness and uncertainty and fear!! There is no better guarantee of people spying on their own, for a higher authority than a system ruled by fear!! We were all (and yes I include myself in this!) so supercilious regarding our 'spiritual well-being' - that true love for our brothers never came into our reckoning Sam "Learn from yesterday - live for today - hope for tomorrow"
voideater		#9	[-]
Bronze Level Member Posts: 23 (02/06/09 14:48:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yes, it's there (the judging, the "partial shun" - brilliant phrase, BTW). Knowing their judgment, you can't help but be judged. The answer is to do some personal development work and realize their opinion doesn't matter. When their opinion doesn't matter, you KNOW they are judging you but yout don't FEEL judged.
AndriaSyxx		#10	[-]
Supreme Member Posts: 4821 (02/06/09 17:06:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	LovesBulldogs wrote: It happened in my congregation. The sisters married to unbelieving mates, the single sisters, the poor ones . . no one wanted them around. I recall going to many congregation picnics and having these ones excluded. They were certainly judged. It's the people you mentioned in your post above Loves ... that my Dad and Mum would bend over backwards to help out. The single mums or those married to non-JWs would struggle coming in with their kids, finding a seat, taking care of the kids etc ... and my parents would take them under their wings despite having four (and later on five) kids of their own. It's sad to think that their is such a hierarchy in an organisation that claims to love their fellow man ... but it's been like that since the religions inception. And Joe's right ... it was often the elders or ministerial servants kids who were the most active socially ... not all of them obviously. I have to say though they were also most actively socially with 'worldly' folk too at times but their Mummies and Daddies either didn't realise it or they turned a blind eye! Tut tut! I don't like to judge people even to this day ... perhaps because I was judged so harshly and I watched my caring father constantly in trouble for helping those who really DID need help. He was accused of having affairs with the single mothers he had helped ... even though my Mum and my three siblings and I were always there too! It's not a religion of love at all ... it's a religion of conditions, restrictions, scrutiny and keeping up appearances. "I have always been delighted at the prospect of a new day, a fresh try, one more start ... with perhaps a bit of magic waiting somewhere behind the morning." ~~ J.B. Priestly ~~
ariker		#11	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++ Posts: 1863 (02/06/09 19:32:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	You took a short university course????? No wonder they're judging you
nonconformist	silent judging	#12	[-]
Gold Level Member Posts: 140 (02/07/09 18:10:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi and welcome to the Forum, Joe! You chose a good topic to start off with because I'm sure we can all relate to how you feel. It felt good to read this thread about feeling judged by JW without them saying or doing anything because until now I thought it was all just my own paranoia!! That's the great thing about this forum: you find out that all your weird thoughts and feelings aren't so strange at all, and that most of us here experience the same. It's really encouraging, enlightening and rewarding, and helps us get over and move on. Like voideater said: The answer is to do some personal development work and realize their opinion doesn't matter. When their opinion doesn't matter, you KNOW they are judging you but yout don't FEEL judged. This is my motto, too. Otherwise JWs will make a neurotic, paranoid mess of you! They're the ones with psychological issues, always enjoying judging, gossip and slander, and if you're made to feel like an outcast, like I also was, it's actually a good thing because it means you're not - and probably never were - one of them! Phew!
sweetangst		#13	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster) Posts: 61 (02/07/09 20:25:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	nonconformist wrote: They're the ones with psychological issues, always enjoying judging, gossip and slander, and if you're made to feel like an outcast, like I also was, it's actually a good thing because it means you're not - and probably never were - one of them! Phew! Amen! (Or for BSG fans, if there are more here, "So say we all!" ) "Truth is high but higher still is truthful living." - Guru Nanak
Joe123		#14	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 11 (02/08/09 06:24:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	nonconformist wrote: Hi and welcome to the Forum, Joe! You chose a good topic to start off with because I'm sure we can all relate to how you feel. It felt good to read this thread about feeling judged by JW without them saying or doing anything because until now I thought it was all just my own paranoia!! That's the great thing about this forum: you find out that all your weird thoughts and feelings aren't so strange at all, and that most of us here experience the same. It's really encouraging, enlightening and rewarding, and helps us get over and move on. I definately agree with that, even though my friends may never understand the feeling, at least its not just my brain playing tricks on me. Ariker: I did a short Uni course in Psychology (only three months) but I'm actually doing a 4 year degree, so yeah, they don't like me haha
solitaire		#15	[-]
Posts: 3052 (02/09/09 05:01:43) Co Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	*I did a short Uni course in Psychology (only three months) but I'm actually doing a 4 year degree, so yeah, they don't like me haha* I think that is a brilliant direction to take, especially after the mind games we have all experienced!! Good luck with that! LOL Joe - when you finish your degree - you could have a full-time job on this board xx Sam "Learn from yesterday - live for today - hope for tomorrow"
superpunk		#16	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster) Posts: 73 (02/09/09 10:36:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	There is a term they use called "marking". Generally this is applied when they have no good reason to disfellowship a person, but they want the followers to avoid that person anyway. In general, a local needs part will deal with it, and it will be made clear what sort of person they should be avoiding. This doesn't sound like it's the case with you. With you they probably just view you as bad association. Not really one of them. If you're not at least reaching out to be a ministerial servant, pioneer, not answering at meetings, etc, there must be something wrong with you. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
AllTimeJeff		#17	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++ Posts: 1413 (02/11/09 05:55:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi there Joe.... You are absolutely correct that judging goes on. One thing I haven't had much of an opportunity to discuss is that during my time as an elder, I would frequently have to deal with JW's who would report other JW's, what they were doing, watching on TV, etc. They had made the judgements, and were now turning in their brothers. How dare they watch "Star Wars"! The whole dogma breeds this mindset. In addition, I belive that the whole JW dogma attracts this kind of person. You see, anyone who can remotely think for themselves or enlighten their own conscience is a threat to those that get their conscience from the borg. JW's are threatened by those who can think for themselves because they allow the GB to do their thinking for them. They have to judge someone who acts differently. To tolerate others would be to repudiate their entire world view. It helps to understand that these people are pre-dispositioned and trained to be this way. Don't take it personally. They don't know any better. Jeff The good old days weren't always good And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems -Billy Joel
Ronnie45		#18	[-]
Posts: 14150 (02/12/09 08:42:27) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I guess I am a bit late in posting, but this is a very good topic and this seemed a big issue to me also.. I think personally the jw's judge people regularly on how they are measuring up. I can remember feeling all the time that others were judging me (usually for the worse) and then I was unintentionally passing judgement on others as well (again usually for the worse). This is a good topic to for the anger management board... If it wasn't for the fact that I've been out of the jw's for quite a while now, I would also harbor some general anger about this issue and how many years it affected me. It did affect me a bit longer probably after leaving I know, but I am past it now.... Just another good reminder for me on how grateful I am to be out of the org..
nonconformist	Silent judging	#19	[-]
Gold Level Member Posts: 158 (02/13/09 21:32:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The whole dogma breeds this mindset. In addition, I belive that the whole JW dogma attracts this kind of person. You see, anyone who can remotely think for themselves or enlighten their own conscience is a threat to those that get their conscience from the borg. JW's are threatened by those who can think for themselves because they allow the GB to do their thinking for them. They have to judge someone who acts differently. To tolerate others would be to repudiate their entire world view. It helps to understand that these people are pre-dispositioned and trained to be this way. Don't take it personally. They don't know any better. This is excellent, Jeff, and exactly the reminders we need here! We have to remember that it's their mindset and lack of independent thinking ability which create this judgemental atmosphere, and that nothing is actually wrong with us if we are "marked" or given that certain look. I've finally come to realize that the way I was treated years ago was because I DID think for myself and that automatically attracted all the judgements, gossip, slander and even hatred like a magnet! But I'm glad it happened that way because it means I never really belonged with them, and it helped me along the path out of there!
matitalica		#20	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++ Posts: 1752 (02/15/09 06:47:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Oh yeah, I was judged after I got a blood transfusion, I was judged harshly and unjustifiably. I am even still judged til this day.

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