WT & UN NGO Scandal - Counterpoint??? in Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy Forum

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WT & UN NGO Scandal - Counterpoint???

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DuWut	WT & UN NGO Scandal - Counterpoint???	Lead	[-]
Platinum Level Member Posts: 485 Mar 18 11 12:34 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/ride_the_wild_beast.html http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/awaketopropaganda.html I read this today and I'm curious about if anyone else has. I'm sure most on this forum are very familiar with the NGO status the WT had with the UN from 1992-2001. But of course there is always another side to every story in life, and he's the other side of the story found in that article link above. You know I'm not a bitter ex-JW, I have issues about it for sure, but more so I'm just looking for answers to things. I like hearing both sides of arguments as long as they are intelligent and not personally attacking then one can decide for themselves. In the end I think it basically comes down to this: If you "want" to believe that the WTBS aka JW org. is in fact the only true religion on the planet and that soon God will destroy all non-believing and wicked mankind, then no matter what, this is what you will believe. On the contrary if you are upset, disgusted or put off by what you percieve to be major misgivings, out right lies, organizational hypocrisy and constant change to doctrine then you will view the JW religion as just another corrupt man made organized religion with no backing from God whatsoever regardless of their claims. I just find it fascinating how religion in general, across the whole globe, has such a strangle hold on mankind. And that has been the case throughout history. Personally I am to the point where I find organized religion to be completely nauseating and does nothing but make my head hurt. Just like politics, religion is a he said/she said cluster phuck to me! When in the end a person has to walk away from the argument and make up his own mind. I just don't get it, and I'm tired of trying to figure it out. I think I may leave this forum for awhile, clear my head, live & enjoy my life and if there ever comes a day of reckoning with my maker (not even sure if I totally believe in a creator anymore) then I've got more than a few questions to ask. Last Edited By: DuWut Mar 18 11 12:37 PM. Edited 1 time.
WorldlyMan		#1	[-]
Bronze Level Member Posts: 39 Mar 18 11 6:47 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	There is actually a counter argument to that counter arguement on jwfacts.com http://jwfacts.com/images...ose-jehovahsjudgment.pdf
Cacky		#2	[-]
Paramount Member Posts: 5733 Mar 18 11 11:03 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I really appreciate all the time and effort others have put in to showing the deceitfulness of the Watchtower.
AndriaSyxx		#3	[-]
Posts: 28559 Mar 18 11 11:06 PM Forum Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	DuWut wrote: In the end I think it basically comes down to this: If you "want" to believe that the WTBS aka JW org. is in fact the only true religion on the planet and that soon God will destroy all non-believing and wicked mankind, then no matter what, this is what you will believe. I came to the same conclusion years ago DuWut but it certainly hasn't stopped me from trying to get others to see what is REALLY in store for them if they do venture too close to the front door of the average jdub hall. "Thanks to God .... for making me an Atheist!" Ricky Gervais Golden Globe Awards - 2011
DuWut		#4	[-]
Platinum Level Member Posts: 485 Mar 21 11 5:51 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	WorldlyMan wrote: There is actually a counter argument to that counter arguement on jwfacts.com http://jwfacts.com/images...ose-jehovahsjudgment.pdf Thank you for posting this!!!! I had a great weekend, had fun, enjoyed it, recharged the batteries and so I thought I'd check this tread out today. It all boils down to I can't believe that the WTBS would ever ENTERTAIN the notion to have ANY affiliation with the UN in any way, shape or form! They mico-analyaze the minuncia of every little thing, breaking down the blood parts to figure out what is acceptable or not, yet they can join an association such as the UN "The Scarlett Colored Wild Beast" destined for destruction by Jehovah and they must at the very least "share" or "support" or both, the goals of the UN by this association. I don't see how that can just be explained away as no big deal, and that those that have an issue with it are the ones that have the problem! I remember being a 3rd grader (9yrs old???) and secretly having a birthday cupcake at school for a party for one of my classmates. Later that day I felt SO GUILTY and thought that surely I would die at Armegeddon for disobeying God and participating in a Pagan ritual like a birthday party! I knew I had "damaged my relationship with God" and would have to work extra hard to show him how sorry I was for not being able to pass this test of my faith. But the WTBS can join the U.N. and say it was no big deal, explain it away as nothing, and say it was totally innocent and that they never supported or shared any of the same ideals???? If we can't even "think" of having sex with someone who is not our mate because "we have commited fornication in our heart / mind" but they can sign a freaking yearly agreement to at the very least "share" with the scarlett colored wild beasts ideals, someone please explain to me how that makes sense?????????????????????? Oh......it doesn't. I see.
AndreaIsFree		#5	[-]
Platinum Level Member Posts: 368 Mar 23 11 1:22 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	well said DuWut! ditto. Love your commentary! agree agree agree!
AndreaIsFree		#6	[-]
Platinum Level Member Posts: 368 Mar 23 11 1:41 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I just went to the first link to see their response----wow. very cleverly written and oh so wrong and misleading. I don't even need to go read the "rebuttal" on the other link given later. Thank you so much for posting that!!! it told me everything I needed to know on how they can rationalize and twist. wow. they can make anything o.k. when they want to. To what I had previously read, being an NGO is actually being a supporter/promoter of the UN's directives---which has been said all along to be part of the political system that is attempting to take the place of God's Kingdom (government)---which is directing and influencing others' opinons/attitudes/support of the UN---which they say they are not doing---but are. they always use the example of how if you are voting and on the ballot you mark for 2 different parties, then your vote is invalid. So they say not to vote for human governments if you are voting for God's. no one was saying that the UN is not one of the "superior authorities"----where do they get that from? That is a smoke & mirrors non-issue to cloud what is really the crux of the matter. And you can't equate what they claim the UN represents, and what it does represent with the IRS and post office. That is totally ridiculous. what if one said that they had joined the Democratic or Republican non-governmental organization to get a library card. What if one (using U.S.A. label) were to sign up for that? Would that sound different? It's the same! The UN represents all world governments (or so they try) leaders who are working for nobel causes. And, why were the UN reps contacted with this situation initially shocked when they found out what the WT actually thinks they are? why were they surprised they had signed up when they felt that way if were not sounding odd to them? And why did some JW's entirely deny the situation if their initial reactions, their gut feelings, their conscience, immediately pricked that something was seriously wrong and hypocritical? those are a few small points. I am not spending any more time on this. If they can sign up for the UN, then other JW's can make other conscience based decisions, didn't need to lose their lives over other stupid things.
thehappygoat		#7	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++ Posts: 1663 Mar 23 11 3:48 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	All I can say is you guys make amazing points! I give you all a solid "G" for "Persuasive Argument" and "Clear and Understandable" - no "W's" for you!
DuWut		#8	[-]
Platinum Level Member Posts: 485 Mar 23 11 4:49 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I also thought of the point today that they claim that we are "in subjection to the superior authorities", such as if your born in the U.S.A or any other country for that matter we pay our taxes, obey the laws, use the federal postal system and use many other of the government based programs to our advantage and it doesn't hinder our relationship with God, and they try to use that example with them and the U.N. The problem I have with that analogy is that whatever country your born in or whatever country you start a business in (such as the WTBS) you are automatically bound by those state/federal laws, you have no choice. However with the WTBS they went out and searched out and willfully on their own accord made a conscious decisions to sign up as an NGO with the UN. They were under no law to do so. They were under no penalty to stay seperate from the UN. But yet they made no doubt a "prayfull" decision and since they are the "Faithful & Discreet Slave Class" God's holy spirit would have surely been a backing force to sign up as a NGO. Yet when it becomes public, they quickly withdrawl their assoaciation, play dumb that they didn't know what was going on, and try to explain it away as no big deal. I don't buy that. Because it doesn't make sense, and surely with Jehovah, Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the Biblical Faithful & Discreet Slave Class running the JW org. this could never have happened.
YammerHammer		#9	[-]
Paramount Member Posts: 4916 Mar 23 11 5:43 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The information in those first two links, although deceitful, at first glance, provides at least some kind of reason why JDubs shouldn't get upset about it. The problem I have is that the Borg has never come clean, other than in some letters to the branch headquarters and answering an occasional letter from a reader. Why didn't the Society publish something similar stating their innocence? The quieter they are about it, the quicker it goes away. Why publish something about it when most of their followers don't have any idea it even happened? A few of the JDubs I have talked to about this said that it was all lies. After I printed out about 20 or 30 pages of documentation, which probably for the most part wasn't read, they concluded there must be good reason for the Borg to join up. My wife showed my documentation to the Pioneer who was studying with her at the time. She told my wife that she had documentation that disproved it all. Funny, even after several inquiries, she never produced a stitch. Then, as you say, there is the immediate disassociation from the UN... within 24 hours of the news story in the Guardian. The Borg's position on any other similar kind of "association" with religious or political organizations is clearly understood. It somehow just doesn't apply to the Society. You wanna talk about their dishonesty? We could discuss the book "Creation" published in 1985. This outrageous book is filled with lies and deception, so much so, I can't imagine how anyone would read anything published by them and take it seriously. Yeah, there's a pattern... a long history of deception, damage control, and spinning the story to be in their favor. In the end I think it basically comes down to this: If you "want" to believe that the WTBS aka JW org. is in fact the only true religion on the planet and that soon God will destroy all non-believing and wicked mankind, then no matter what, this is what you will believe. Amen DuWat. In the end, it has nothing to do with the "truth." Or reason. Or even morality. They cannot tolerate even an honest question, let alone a well-formed argument. Yammer. PS... Happygoat? Do I get a "G" too? My dad was the Ministry School Overseer for years... not even he would give me "G's." edited to change "Did Man get here by Creation or by Evolution?" published in 1967... I should have said the "Creation" book published in 1985. "There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out." ~ Russian Proverb Last Edited By: YammerHammer Mar 26 11 9:19 AM. Edited 2 times.
YammerHammer		#10	[-]
Paramount Member Posts: 4916 Mar 23 11 5:54 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	AndreaIsFree said: If they can sign up for the UN, then other JW's can make other conscience based decisions, didn't need to lose their lives over other stupid things. Egg-zak-tly. They stand over the graves of Jehovah's Witnesses who died in Malawi, and the Nazi concentration camps, and piss on their graves. "There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out." ~ Russian Proverb
thehappygoat		#11	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++ Posts: 1663 Mar 24 11 12:45 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	YammerHammer wrote: PS... Happygoat? Do I get a "G" too? My dad was the Ministry School Overseer for years... not even he would give me "G's." Abso frickin lutely! A big giant "G" for stress and modulation - that is, if you can tell me what modulation really is once and for all!
Cacky		#12	[-]
Paramount Member Posts: 5733 Mar 24 11 7:06 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I still don't know if the counterpoint is endorsed by the org or not, or if it was just a jdub taking it upon himself to do it.
Cacky		#13	[-]
Paramount Member Posts: 5733 Mar 24 11 7:11 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	And as far as I know, my twin girls still don't even believe the org signed up with the U.N. It's still being that shrouded. DuWut, when I was at their apartment the other night, I went over in anger after learning they are going to be shunning my other daughter and myself, well, cutting back on associatioin is what they said, anyway, I told them (ok, maybe yelled it) that they (the org) made me make my seven-year old cry because I was asked to talk to her about eating birthday cupcakes in school. And when I brought it up, tears welled up in her eyes. I felt so bad. And here they were at just about the very same point in time being members of the U.N.!! As you can imagine, the girls still didn't get it. ONe of them acutally dialed the police on me! LOL The other one just kept saying, We don't talk to apostates. But isn't it something, such a big deal made over a CUPCAKE and here they join the UNITED NATIONS, WILD BEAST, SPAWN OF SATAN!! It is just amazing!!
AndreaIsFree		#14	[-]
Platinum Level Member Posts: 368 Mar 24 11 7:18 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yes Cacky it is "amazing". what a warped sense of right/wrong and priorities. when I was at Bethel that was one of the glaring crazy things to me, how they would harp on something so insignificant and ridiculous----but huge issues they would disregard. I started thinking I was going crazy. Hang in there. calling the police?!, really? how incredibly sad they are reduced to that.
dude		#15	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++ Posts: 1975 Mar 26 11 10:04 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	cacky, you can go to the UN website and type "watchtower" in the search bar, the first thing that pops up is irrefutable proof. If you do it in front of them, it may have an effect. But probably not, just wanted to make you aware that you can. The Dude Abides
Cacky		#16	[-]
Paramount Member Posts: 5733 Mar 26 11 5:57 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've tried that Dude, but I only got six articles that had nothing to do with the borg. When I tried Watchtower and NGO, I got nothing. I'll give it another try.
Cacky		#17	[-]
Paramount Member Posts: 5733 Mar 26 11 6:01 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Nope. Still didn't work. Don't know what I"m doing wrong. It seems my girl are ignoring my phone calls anyway.
dude		#18	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++ Posts: 1975 Mar 26 11 6:09 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	hmm, it worked a few months ago... it seems they took it down, i wonder why. Maybe the org threatened suit? really weird! The Dude Abides
Cacky		#19	[-]
Paramount Member Posts: 5733 Mar 26 11 6:54 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Well, if they know anyway, it doesn't really matter. Thanks, Dude. I know I've seen the letter they put out. Probably have a printed version around here. When I first left, I was printing out all kinds of stuff. lol
dude		#20	[-]
MVP (Most Valuable Poster)++ Posts: 1975 Mar 26 11 7:32 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	i have it on pdf if you need it (just pm me with your email address if you do)... although i liked being able to go right to the UN's website and getting it right there, therefore no1 can say "you dont know if its real" The Dude Abides

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WT & UN NGO Scandal - Counterpoint???

WT & UN NGO Scandal - Counterpoint???